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 Courtroom
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:28 pm 
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Moving chat from http://ss.deviatenow.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=648

OK that's the beta version up.

Please don't submit to it just yet! :D

The core should be working, if a little messy. The functional bits that still need work are as follows:

  • People on trial can't check their progress and submit evidence
  • Evidence not displayed
  • Server just displaying test cases for now (but Adding new cases OK behind the scenes)
  • Need Jury voting
  • Display results in "Trial"

Think it proves the concept but lots of things need to be filled out (e.g. webcam for collateral does not warn it takes pic or ask if ok)

Basic concept is:
---------------
What if there were a “courtroom” app with a few slots for “cases”. It would work this way:

1) The player submits collateral (something they don’t want made public).
2) The system assigns a task (or the player selects one).
3) Within 24 hours, the player must submit a link to evidence (pics or video) that they completed the task.
4) The player will then be “judged” by others to decide whether the task was successful.
5) If the player is found “guilty” of not performing the task, the collateral is released.

I can see voting being an issue, with some viewers purposely skewing the vote. Instead of basing the verdict on a percentage, maybe a single “innocent” vote could spare the defendant?

I’m also not sure how to properly protect the collateral. If it were a picture, wouldn’t that link be accessible to others who understand how groovy and the server were set up? I’m interested in hearing ideas on how to solve that.

Lastly, the system would probably have a lot of non-serious players wasting everyone’s time. Limiting the system to three cases or so at a time would allow the “judges” to focus on just a few defendants.

The system could also create a “court date” for applicants, who must report at that time if they want a slot. It would also be exciting/stressful to know that your court date was coming up. Maybe you’d submit the collateral at the same time you request a court date?

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 Re: Courtroom
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:11 pm 
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So for some info on the way the beta works just now...

1) Anyone can view current cases or Submit to the court

2) If you want to submit you will be asked for details on your "crime" and provide some collateral ( this will be some text, a link or can take a webcam image)

3) You will be assign a punishment that you have 24 hours to complete
Probably will allow evidence in the same way as collateral but not put in just yet. All submitted evidence is time stamped by server.

4) 24 hours from your task deadline will be the trial time (people who are allowed to vote do so in the 24 hours before the trial - without seeing how anyone else has voted)

You are found guilt if a majority say so and your collateral will be released

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 Re: Courtroom
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:43 pm 
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Ok last beta for the day from me ;-) Will see what ptdw does next...

On the script side it looks to all be working except not letting Jury vote. (critical I guess :lol: )

On the server everything appears to be working except have it showing test data for "view current cases", this will stay like that till the script moves on a bit more..

The key area that really needs work on is what crimes people are likely to be coming to court with and what tasks they should be given as a result. - Feel free to add suggestions here

Still need to think about other things e.g. do we allow the Trial date to be later than 48 hours or are we best to have have 24 hours to do task and then the Trial is triggered when the user logs in at least 24 hours after that (if had at least one vote)? That way would be easier to fit in with some peoples schedule and could have extra perks like having to wire an e-stim (if have one) while waiting for the result :roll:

Also do we limit how many people are passing through the court at a time?

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 Re: Courtroom
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:30 pm 
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Bugger script reverted to my old one before it uploaded so lost all the uploading evidence stuff.. Will quickly redo while in head :roll:

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 Re: Courtroom
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:32 pm 
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Liz wrote:
Ok last beta for the day from me ;-) Will see what ptdw does next...


Wow, great work Liz! I have some ideas on crimes and punishments. I'll start filling in the details and see where we end up. As Liz mentioned, feedback is encouraged!

Maybe to start, we'll leave it with three case slots and see how much interest there is. We can always add more. If there are too many cases, the "defendants" won't get much exposure, and will have less risk. If everyone's watching, the experience is a lot more realistic.


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 Re: Courtroom
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:49 pm 
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Ok just re-added the evidence and vote parts uploaded... will have a drink now 8-)

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 Re: Courtroom
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:00 am 
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Version 0.11 uploaded. I'm sure there are spelling errors and typos, but I fleshed out the story line a lot more and added a punishment system. I think I'll wait till we're a little further along before adding more pictures.

There's also kind of a story line issue, as the sentencing takes place before the final trial by judges, but I'm sure we can rectify that creatively...

I'll make the punishments more logical in the future--currently everything is just random. I'm thinking that each punishment may require the prisoner to report back to the script for punishment, and then have the script guide him/her through the process. For now, there's just a placeholder with a brief description. Of course, we'll also need to verify that the player has the right equipment to carry out the punishments...

I'll try to get back to this a little later, but that's all for now.


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 Re: Courtroom
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:03 am 
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ptdw wrote:
Version 0.11 uploaded


Sorry about the version number jump...I guess I'm thinking in binary! :oops: :lol:


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 Re: Courtroom
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:26 am 
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I fixed the version number, and a number of minor issues. Now it's my turn for a drink. I'm done for today. ;)


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 Re: Courtroom
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:23 am 
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Good work, like the court language ;-)

I've done a bit of reformatting of the data to/from the server so everyone will need this mornings version 8-)
For cases we now have 4 extra values from server:
  • Number of votes Guilty -Server will make this 0 for stage 1 or 2 (may have on while beta for stage 2)
  • Number of votes Not Guilty - Server will make this 0 for stage 1 or 2
  • Collateral - Server will display NA unless found Guilty
  • Collateral detail - Now asks for description of Collateral when submit case

Quote:
There's also kind of a story line issue, as the sentencing takes place before the final trial by judges, but I'm sure we can rectify that creatively...


Yes had me thinking of that as well.... I was wondering if it necessarily needs to be refereed to as sentencing at the first stage? Could the court say is "adjourned while character assessments are made" - the first punishment could be referred to as "assessments"?
The court can then re-adjourn to Judge the case based on the "character assessments" 8-)

Was also wondering if we ask the jury for comments as they vote? This would allow the trial basically run a script like the following:

  • Introduction and summary of crime
  • Summary of evidence - displaying pictures etc in order
  • Judge sums up by saying the comments jury said when voting
  • Jury decides - can delay longer if not unanimous?
  • Judge pronounces verdict (and sentence of releasing Collateral if Guilty)

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 Re: Courtroom
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:39 am 
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This looks like a very promising concept for people who have limited time but still want the threat of really undesirable consequences to make them comply to a punishment. I had a quick look at the test version and I have a few tips/recommendations, if you don't mind.

* To prevent people registering bogus cases with the court, I think people should be required to register before they can submit a case. At the very least, they'd need a working email which would need to be verified before they can access the system. They'd then be issued a unique access code. That way, you can block people who abuse the system.

* For judges, there should also be a registration similar to be above. When someone registers a new case, the system could randomly elect and notify 3 judges who can accept or refuse the case. This will allow you to ban judges who don't take their position seriously.

* Perhaps the accused should be allowed a choice of time frame until evidence is due from 24, 48 or 72 hours? If they need to acquire things they don't have available, this will allow them to do so.

* Perhaps the accused should be allowed a chance for a one-time appeal to the punishment they get, knowing that if they appeal the punishment could be more severe.


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 Re: Courtroom
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:18 pm 
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boy2spank wrote:
This looks like a very promising concept for people who have limited time but still want the threat of really undesirable consequences to make them comply to a punishment. I had a quick look at the test version and I have a few tips/recommendations, if you don't mind.

Thanks - never mind tips/recommendations ;)

boy2spank wrote:
* To prevent people registering bogus cases with the court, I think people should be required to register before they can submit a case. At the very least, they'd need a working email which would need to be verified before they can access the system. They'd then be issued a unique access code. That way, you can block people who abuse the system.

The latest version limits how many cases are in the court at a time. I'm hesitant to go for a full validation as it always gets time consuming to do properly. My thoughts at the moment are to add to the script, basic detecting of bogus cases and not upload them. Failing that my second approach would be to do some checking on the server and block IP addresses after say 2 detected bogus cases. Only if this approach fails I think would be worth going to email verification etc...

boy2spank wrote:
* For judges, there should also be a registration similar to be above. When someone registers a new case, the system could randomly elect and notify 3 judges who can accept or refuse the case. This will allow you to ban judges who don't take their position seriously.

The current process of everyone being allowed to vote is only temporary while testing. A few versions down the road will change back to registered Jury members only (Currently that would be me, you and ptdw). I think this works best as most people who use sexscripts have busy schedules so depending on timing may mis the 24hour slot to vote on a high number of cases but would still be useful for the times they are about. But I will probably have a way for at least ptdw to remove jury members that leave inappropriate comments or vote clearly against the evidence without justification. The server prevents jury from voting more than once and voting for yourself so the odd bad jury member should not effect things :lol:

boy2spank wrote:
* Perhaps the accused should be allowed a choice of time frame until evidence is due from 24, 48 or 72 hours? If they need to acquire things they don't have available, this will allow them to do so.

Yes agree - this will probably vary a lot depending on the task and person. e.g. some people will find it hard to buy a dildo on a Sunday or someone who likes chastity will not mind being locked up for just a day.
boy2spank wrote:
* Perhaps the accused should be allowed a chance for a one-time appeal to the punishment they get, knowing that if they appeal the punishment could be more severe.

Another good idea... would make it fun getting a difficult task but not knowing if the replacement would be worse :twisted:

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 Re: Courtroom
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:43 pm 
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I haven't had a chance to download and look at the script yet. However, here are some thoughts from a lawyer, which I am:

In the U.S., you have to be found guilty in a criminal case by a unanimous jury with proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
In a civil case, you need 3/4 of the jury on one side or the other and the level of proof is by a preponderance of the evidence.
(i.e. 50%+1)

I think we do not want one rogue juror mucking up this script. So maybe jury instructions such as this:
1. Is it more likely than not that the defendant committed the crime charged?
2. Have a guilty verdict if 75% or maybe 80% of the jury finds the defendant guilty.

Respectfully submitted,

Judge bendedknee


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 Re: Courtroom
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:30 pm 
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bendedknee wrote:
In the U.S., you have to be found guilty in a criminal case by a unanimous jury with proof beyond a reasonable doubt....

I think we do not want one rogue juror mucking up this script. So maybe jury instructions such as this:
1. Is it more likely than not that the defendant committed the crime charged?
2. Have a guilty verdict if 75% or maybe 80% of the jury finds the defendant guilty.


I think we would not want it to be a unanimous jury as there would be equal chance of a rogue juror letting someone guilty off ;) It will be hard to set what percentage is needed till we get going as will not know how many people are typically going to vote on a case.. even then will probably tail off once the first buzz dies down? I think for now may be best to have it that to be found guilty you need at least 2 more guilty votes to "not guilty", with the low number of eligible voters just now (4) this would require a high percentage - This can then be revised once we get started, of course warning everyone before they submit. It would also stop people being found guilty if only 1 of the jury voted.

Your comments do also raise the point that at the moment Jury members just vote on cases without much thought. I think it would make sense to push the jury through a similar script to the "Trial" described above where they have to view all the pictures and are advised by the judge on the burden of proof before voting.

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Liz

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 Re: Courtroom
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:59 pm 
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Wow, a lot of activity since I last logged in... This is a great discussion--thanks all for your comments and suggestions.

bendedknee wrote:
I haven't had a chance to download and look at the script yet. However, here are some thoughts from a lawyer, which I am:


I was hoping we had an attorney in our midst! I'm especially interested to hear your feedback after trying the script. How would you suggest dealing with our plot problem of assigning a punishment before the trial?

When you get a chance to see the text and story, I'd also really appreciate your feedback on that. Anything you can add or change to make it more realistic would be greatly appreciated. Please send the bill to Liz. :D

Since there are some story flow and logistical elements still in play, I'll focus on the punishment system for the time being. That's still going to need a lot of work to get right. So far, I've only included punishments that have actually been used to punish criminals "in real life", but I'd imagine there are some other punishments we can get to fit in. Any suggestions?


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